ep05 - Know Your Customer on Social Media: Enneagram Type Seven

show Jan 27, 2021

Find out how Enneagram Sevens approach social media!

Modern marketing says you need to find your one, perfect customer and get to know their preferences, habits, likes and dislikes. The Enneagram is an ancient knowledge system paired with modern-day psychology to describe 9 distinct personality types. I'm on a mission to discover what the Modern Enneagram can tell Modern Marketing about the personality of your one, perfect customer. 

My first guest in this series is one of my good friends, Allison DeVelvis. 

Allison is an Enneagram Type Seven. We discuss:

  • What she likes and dislikes on social media
  • What makes her click on a post, comment, or share
  • The platforms she loves to hang out on

If you've ever wished you could get in your customer’s head and know how to create social media content for them, this conversation with Allison could get you one step closer.

 

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Transcript:

Megan: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome. Welcome. I am so excited today to dig into the topic of knowing your customer through the Enneagram and, to help me do that. Our first guest in this series is one of my good friends. Allison DeVelvis.  She lives. Here in central Ohio with me, she has two kids and she's an Enneagram Seven, likes to have fun. Anything else you'd like to add Allison? 

Allison: [00:00:34] That's perfect. I just a brief example of my relationship with Megan in relation to the Enneagram. Years ago, when we were new friends. Megan wanted to get her nose pierced. And she was like, who would be the person that I could call? And I think this is before you knew much about the Enneagram, right?

Megan: [00:00:54] Oh yeah.

Allison: [00:00:55] Yeah. And you were just like, who's the person that's like crazy and impulsive. And I could last minute say, will you go with me to get my nose pierced? And you texted me and were like, Hey. And unfortunately, I couldn't because I had somebody else going on, but I would absolutely have done that. And I feel like that's before we even knew the Enneagram, you were like, You kind of do this crazy wild thing with me. This is who you are.

This is how our relationship works. 

Megan: [00:01:18] Yes. And ones and Sevens, are lovely friends, we share a line. So we kind of vibe off one another in that way where I really love the spontaneity. And sometimes the Seven needs someone to be like, can we

Allison: [00:01:33] Can you tell us what restaurant we're going to and figure out, and then I'm in for it.

Megan: [00:01:40] Exactly. That's awesome. Okay. Well, I would like to start off with just a brief description of the Enneagram Seven, which is from this book called the nine types of leadership by Beatrice Chestnut. I recommend any of her books, but this is a good one. If you're a business person looking to apply it to your life with your coworkers or your boss, that kind of thing.

So the type Seven, I'll read it. And Allison you tell me if you relate with this, we're like, what's the part that you really relate with most. So the type Seven is a prototypical person who wants more than anything to feel good and not bad sometimes called the Epicure or the adventures. The adventure Sevens want to stay happy, experience, pleasure, and imagine all the creative possibilities connected to whatever interests them.

They tend to have the unconscious belief that if they start feeling bad, they may never stop. This is why negative emotions are so threatening as intellectual types. So it isn't an intellectual type, which people are sometimes.  about that with Sevens Excel at finding unexpected connections between things and automatically goes to what sounds fun, exciting, or intellectually stimulating this continual search for the best option.

And the best experience is rooted in a drive to find what makes them happy since they don't always know what makes them happiest, they need the freedom to pursue anything and everything. How do you feel about that description? 

Allison: [00:03:14] That sounds pretty accurate. I think I, the part, I always do struggle with the Sevens being like in the thinking tread.

Cause I feel like I don't spend a lot of time in my head maybe because I don't want to feel negative things. And like I just, and I'm a complete external processor, so I don't think of good things just in my head it's through talking it out with somebody else. So maybe like the combination of all that.

Like the intellectual piece. I know it to be true. It's just not how I feel like I operate. Normally. It's always surprising, I guess. 

Megan: [00:03:48] Yeah. Well, I think that that part goes to the things that you find fun. You can deep dive into those things really quickly and experience them.

A deep level quickly and also process information quickly. Often we get presented with the same thing and you're two steps ahead. I'm like, wait, let me catch up.

Allison: [00:04:15] Yes. Being quick-witted and can engage in new topics fast. Yeah, I absolutely do that. For sure.

Megan: [00:04:24] Alison is like the tech person. We used to be in a MOPS group together, that's kind of how we really got to know each other really well. She was always the one where we're like, okay, how do we do that?

Allison: [00:04:38] How does this work?

Megan: [00:04:39] Exactly. Okay. Well, the reason I asked Allison to be here is because normally on a podcast and when you have interviews, you seek to find somebody else who has a podcast, or has a product, or has a platform of some sorts that they're trying to elevate.

So, which is totally natural and is a great marketing strategy. However, Allison is not that she, I wanted her and her perspective because she is the person that most marketers are looking to attract on social media. So she does not have that. Exactly. Yeah. You don't have that perspective of being on the other side, which I think taints the way, like.

When I find just watching teenagers – because our daughters are very close to that. I was watching them go through their phones on Instagram or something. I'm like, oh my gosh, they're just not consuming this the way that I thought they would. Yeah. Yeah. So anyhow, so that's why I was gearing to have a conversation with Alison about this.

And she's an Enneagram Seven. I knew she'd be game. Okay. So what it just like, maybe give us an overall general view of. Your relationship with social media, how does it fit in your life? How much time do you spend on it? That kind of thing? 

Allison: [00:06:19] Well, I was one of the first people on Facebook, I think like way back in like the early 2000s when Facebook came out and it was just for colleges, I was in grad school at the time and it was like, Oh, this is super fun.

And a way to connect with my friends. I feel like I'm always late to the game with social media. And I also think I'm kind of old, so I'm not on stuff like Snapchat. And I don't know, like, I feel like I've just embraced my role of like being in my late thirties and a mom and like I'm so like Instagram is my number one place for social media, Facebook.

I feel like I have to be there for the school groups and various organizations and that kind of stuff that I'll have. Like, that's where a lot of information comes out on Facebook. But I have like pared way down to like those groups and just like close friends and family because I feel like there's a lot on Facebook that I just don't even want to engage in anymore.

You still love it? Not so much anymore. Okay. 

Megan: [00:07:19] I feel that way.

Allison: [00:07:22] I feel like that's where I occasionally pop on Twitter, but I think at the beginning I felt like. Ah, this is so funny. I'm like the beginning of the social media, but you know, whatever that was, I felt like there's, how could I possibly limit what I have to say to 150 characters?

So I didn't understand Twitter, but I've come to embrace it more later as a consumer. I like pretty much never posted anything, but mostly like a friend is like, Hey, have you seen this? And then I'm like, Oh cool. And then I go look at it. I feel like I have.  Almost another group, like between me and social media sometimes like, Oh, go check out this.

And then I go check it out. Or like somebody sends me something and, or tags me in something. And then I look at it. I'm definitely a scroller. I feel like what you're saying about your daughter, that teenagers [scroll quickly]. I can see if any of this interesting. We'll see. And I fly through it until something strikes me often.

So that's definitely when I first started looking, I like something has to. Grab me, cause I can absorb a lot in a little bit of time. Like so to get me to engage with it, there has to be something that gets my attention for sure. I will say, I feel like a lot of times when I'm looking at social media I should be doing something else.

So I'm not, I don't have sound done. Do you know what I mean? So if there are no subtitles to something I probably will pass right by it. Cause I'm not. Listening. So, but if I see some titles, I'm like, Ooh, what is this? And then I will find time to watch it with sound on or whatever. But I think that before there were some titles, I think I missed a lot of stuff.

Cause I just, I wasn't listening with audio because I was talking to my kids also, or I was doing something else or whatever. I'm not just watching and listening. I'm reading. So there has to be words that I can read to engage me with something. Because I'm also doing six other things, probably at the same time,

Megan: [00:09:24] Good point that I always recommend that people put the subtitles in there. I mean, I know there are so many apps that do it. It's pretty quick and easy right now. So it's well worth your time as you're saying, so that catches your eye, 

Allison: [00:09:42] But it can't be just words, you know, just like a text box usually is not something intriguing. And I know you often say put yourself in front of the camera. People want to see you and not just read what you have to say. So I think pictures of someone, and then some words with what they're saying helps me to engage. Like I want to see who it is that I'm listening to.

I don't want to just, read something that they posted

Megan: [00:10:10] Versus a quote graphic, right. Versus like somebody's face in there. What I said yes. 

Allison: [00:10:19] That to me is much more engaging and something that is interesting. Cause I really, you know, I'm very people-focused and so I want to see the person and not just what the person's words are.

I want to see you or hear you, or, you know, I want to engage with the actual person. Because other than that, like anybody could be saying that. I don't know. Yeah. Like I want the human part.

Megan: [00:10:42] Do you engage with live streams? Do those ever interest you, people are on there? A lot of talking? 

Allison: [00:10:50] Well, mostly no, because I don't know if I'm going to have time then if I'm going to want to engage with that specific time if I happen to catch a live stream, then cool.

Or I'll watch things later. But as a Seven, I feel like, eh, there might be something else I'd rather be doing at that time, but I'll check it back later. I don't necessarily want to. Something more exciting might be happening at that time. I can't commit to that. 

Megan: [00:11:22] I got it. That makes sense. So as far as links sending you elsewhere, are you, are you apt to click on a link to go somewhere else? Or are you more just going to scroll by that?

Alison: [00:11:43] I, I feel like I offer like a click-bait like gets me a lot of it's like, Ooh, I love that. Oh, it's something about Schitt's Creek. Yes, I will check on that. You know, like it has to be really compelling or like I fall, not fall for that's bad. I guess you're talking to marketers. So like, what are the things that are like, Oh yeah.

I mean, I always like, Oh, can you believe that? Blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't know. Can I let me get more information? Maybe I can. I don't know. I definitely will click on things for stuff like that, you know, just like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, I do want to learn more about that. 

Megan: [00:12:20] So maybe like a quiz to find out. Okay, good quizzes are good.

Allison: [00:12:25] Absolutely. Quizzes are good. Yes. Loved stuff like that. 

Megan: [00:12:30] How about a thing when people offer you free downloads or

Alison: [00:12:34] Yes 

Megan: [00:12:35] and where you have to engage in that way?

Allison: [00:12:37] Yes. I like free downloads. Oh, here, get this thing and then sign up for it. So I, and I will, I will sign up for it because I want whatever that thing is that it looks interesting.

Megan: [00:12:49] I don't know why that surprises me a little bit, but because I guess it's because it's an extra step. Right.

Allison: [00:12:56] But there's something that I get. I like that. Just sign up for my newsletter. Not, I don't really want to sign up for your newsletter, but if you send it for my newsletter, you get this thing. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I'll do that. That's more interesting than just sign up for more information.

Megan: [00:13:21] So what are your pet peeves on social? Maybe things that you're just like, Oh, I will stop doing this.

 Allison: [00:13:30] I think I think something that has happened like over the past year more people are feeling like we have to engage in bigger issues outside of whatever it is. Like we have to make a statement about this thing that's happening in the world. But I think my pet peeve is when it feels like we're just giving lip service to this thing, like, Oh, we have to address racism.

So we're going to say something, but. Doesn't feel like it has weight or meaning behind it. But also you don't want to just ignore topics, things that are, if you especially have a big social media following, like you can't ignore things that are happening around you, but you have to do it in a way that is genuine.

You know? So I think that when people are just like, here's a quote from Martin Luther King because it's Martin Luther King day, like that feels like, Hmm. But what does that look like in your life? You know, or you just being genuine sharing something about yourself or, Oh my gosh, this thing happened and it's big and here's how it's impacting me, you know, being your to genuine self and not just, I don't know. Does that make sense? 

Megan: [00:14:34] Like yeah. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. It's not just like, Oh, this is on your marketing calendar that it's Martin Luther King day. So I should post a quote from him. Right. It should be more. Here's here where we're passionate about racial injustice. So these are the things that we've done in the past year, right?

Something like that. Or like show us that you actually mean this is not just because everybody else is doing it that day. 

Allison: [00:15:01] Right. I think, I feel that way in a lot of different places, whether it be at church and like, well, we had a plan and yeah, this thing happened, but our plan is this. So we're going to keep moving on with the planet.

Like, no, you have to address what people are feeling and going through like acknowledge this, you know, this year has changed everything for everybody. You know, I think it absolutely can change what, what social media is for me. You know, I feel like. It's now, definitely, especially as a Seven, like this escapism, like get me out of like where I'm stuck at home in this world, you know, and all of a sudden my world got super small, like social media as an outlet to like what's outside there and to connect with other people, but I want that connection to be more genuine.

So I guess that you know, works into all of those topics. Like I want to really connect. And it feels social media can sometimes feel fake, like fake connection, but it can also feel genuine when you get like a real heart of someone when they like really share like, yeah, you have a business, but why, why do you have that business?

Just because you're good at something or because you're super passionate about it. And why are you passionate about it? Cause if I can get, I mean, I will jump on any bandwagon, if you can sell me on why. Why I would want to, like, why is this intriguing to you? Then I'll know why it should be intriguing to me and why I'd want to get on board.

Megan: [00:16:24] Mm. Yeah. I love that. That's great. So. If we could maybe dive into the individual platforms, you can give me a quick, like, I'll say one and then just give you like how you feel about that or how you use it or in general. So we talked a little bit, but Facebook has the big one.

 Yeah. Facebook is like PTA groups.

Allison: [00:16:48] And occasionally I get into political arguments with random family members or my brother in-laws. He posts things to try and stir people up. And then I'll jump in on that. Pictures of people's kids, friends from like high school and stuff, you know, seeing that kind of thing. I feel like that's kind of where I get all of those, you know?

Older relationships of people like that? I've been on there for a long time. And then I feel like school stuff, local community stuff, like a lot of that happens on Facebook. 

Megan: [00:17:21] Right. You spend every once in a while you login or is that a daily thing for you? 

Allison: [00:17:28] Yeah, probably a daily. I'll just check and see what's going on and. I feel like there's a lot, especially this year school stuff is so crazy. Sometimes we're in school sometimes we're not, sometimes we're in school every other week, what is even happening. So it's good for somebody to be like, what's the schedule the kids are on today.

And then, you know, can engage in some of that kind of stuff. That's where I get a lot of that awesome stuff. Yeah. 

Megan: [00:17:52] All right, Instagram. 

Allison: [00:17:55] Instagram's my go-to. I feel like I follow a lot of authors of books that I've read, or even like, Celebrities or people from shows that I've watched. And I feel like I engage, I get a lot of stuff related to social justice issues, especially I've really tried to frame who I follow based on like, okay, I want more women of color in my feed.

So I started following people in like reading. Okay, you should follow this person. And then like building off of who other people recommended. So that I get a really, I guess like a wide net to have people there. And so that's really the place where I feel like I go to the most frequently. 

Megan: [00:18:39] And that's changed for you. Cause I remember you were like, what even is,

Alison: [00:18:46] I didn't even have an Instagram account. Here's one picture of my dog from five years ago, you know, so, and I don't, I don't put a lot of stuff out there, but I take a lot in. 

Megan: [00:18:57] Yeah, yeah. Is your, is your account private on Instagram? 

Allison: [00:19:01] Yes, it is. Okay. I think so.

 Megan: [00:19:06] Do you engage more with stories or feed or? 

I do a little bit of both. It's usually like, Oh, in the morning, I'll get on and I'll go through stories. And then later in the day I will go through you know, the actual posts. 

Do you ever watch the like longer-form videos that people can? 

Yeah.

Independent. It has to grab ya.

Allison: [00:19:29] It has to grab me. Yeah. Yeah. I, I would say I like, and certain people I'll always watch stuff that they post, like always watch Trevor Noah during the daily show. Like he'll post little videos. Cause I don't ever watch the whole TV show. That's a big commitment, but like, Oh this one interview with somebody.

Yes. I want to watch that. You know, or like different people I follow, they always grabbed me and I saw a watch that clip on the Instagram TV and watched their whole thing. 

Megan: [00:19:53] Yeah. social media has been amazing for late-night TV because I would never stay awake for it. No, but I will go through and I'll watch every clip from Jimmy Fallon, right? Absolutely. That's true. The next one is Twitter. 

Alison: [00:20:11] Twitter. I honestly like I have my sister-in-law sends me stuff on Twitter all the time. So she's like, Hey, Oh man, Twitter is on fire today. Check this out. And so then I'll go and I'll log in and I'll start reading through stuff, but it's not, I don't, I honestly don't even get on there to check very often, unless something like big is happening and I'm like, Ooh, let's see what Twitter has to say about.

This thing, cause I know I'm going to get information there. Yeah. 

Megan: [00:20:35] Yeah. So you're not turned off. I hear often from people that they don't like Twitter because it's so caustic and you know, that doesn't scare you away. 

Allison: [00:20:45] I mean, I'm not engaging with that very often. It's really only like occasionally when somebody is like, Hey, check this thing out on Twitter and they'll get I'll get on there, but gotcha.

Megan: [00:20:55] Yeah. Pinterest?

Allison: [00:20:58] Pinterest. It's my jam.

I feel like. And that maybe is a Seven thing. It might just be a "me" thing. Like I love to try all different things. So I'm on there for recipes, crafty stuff. I love crafty stuff, DIY, that's my zone. And so I'm on Pinterest all the time. 

Megan: [00:21:15] Do you just scroll through the feed or do you more searching for something specific?

Allison: [00:21:19] Both, but, you know, Pinterest is really like, Oh, I searched for this thing one time, like, Ooh, I want a crochet pattern for a, you know, fingerless gloves. Cause I made them for my nieces for Christmas. And so then all of a sudden it's like, Oh, here's some other crochet things that pop up in my feed and I'm like, Ooh, that looks cool.

Or that looks cool. So, you know, I get a lot of ideas. I think I, one of my skills is. I don't come up with unique ideas very well, but I'm really good at imitating, so I can see something and be like, that's cool. I'm going to make that. So I'll look through, I'll scroll through just to get ideas, and then get inspired and do something on my own.

Megan: [00:21:57] Oh, so you, are you pinning or are you just, you find the one thing? 

Allison: [00:22:01] Oh, no, I pin. And then I go back and check out that stuff. Sometimes I'll just be looking for something. And so I'll pin a whole bunch of stuff and then go back through and figure out what is it that I actually want out of the stuff that I pin.

Megan: [00:22:12] Do you ever interact with people on Pinterest? Like comment on the thing? 

Alison: [00:22:16] I don't think I literally don't think I've ever done that. 

Megan: [00:22:18] I know it's funny. It is funny how on certain platforms you're like, Oh, people do that. Okay. Right. 

Allison: [00:22:24] Like I didn't, I guess I didn't even realize that you can come in. I just go and look for stuff.

Megan: [00:22:30] Yeah. And the person who made that pin would be like, I got a comment. Oh, okay. So LinkedIn is the next one.

Allison: [00:22:40] Mm, I don't think, I think I maybe made a LinkedIn profile really long time ago. I've never done it, I think with that. 

Megan: [00:22:45] Okay. Youtube. 

Allison: [00:22:47] Youtube. I don't ever go and scroll. It's like just browse through YouTube.

I will look for something specific or somebody will send me links and I will watch those, or they'll link to them from somewhere else. Some other kinds of social media or something. I don't think I don't subscribe to YouTube videos or people's YouTube channels. I've never done that. Okay, cool. I just look randomly.

Megan: [00:23:11] Yeah. That's like my go-to like, if I want to. Just the badge out for a while cause that's where I subscribed to all the late-night hosts and all that, you know, so, but yeah, it's interesting just to have raises the diff the different platforms differently. TikTok.

Allison: [00:23:28] Nope. Don't even have a TikTok.

I have a couple of friends that will send Tik Tok videos. And I was like, thank you for subscribing to Tik Tok so that I don't have to, but you can send me the stuff that's good or funny or entertaining. But I don't subscribe to them. 

Megan: [00:23:41] Okay. I think you mentioned Snapchat before like you're not a Snapchatter that, that one's kind of, I feel like gone down in the thing.

Any socials outside of that, like, have you gotten into any, any other like niche things that you're not wanting to like, just go and search out the new and best thing and go sign up for it? 

Allison: [00:24:04] No, no. If my friends aren't doing it, why would I like, you know, like if somebody else is like, Hey, check this thing out.

Like if I had friends that were, I think one time I did download Snapchat. Cause somebody was like, Hey, are you on Snapchat? I'm like, no, but I guess if you are, I should be. So, I mean, I think I had Instagram cause you told me to probably have Instagram before, you know? So I think that it's always like I said before, I'll jump on a bandwagon.

If you give me a reason why, so if somebody was like, this thing is really cool and you should be on there, then I totally would. But I don't know. I guess I don't necessarily seek that out on my own.

Megan: [00:24:44] Yeah. It meant something else. Yeah. That is interesting. I wonder as I go through this if I will find like the people that are the early adopters that are like, Oh yeah, I need to be on that.

You know? But it kind of, and again, as you said earlier like it might be an Allison thing. It might not be your personality thing. Like great. Maybe Sevens overall are the ones jumping on every new social, because it sounds fun. I can absolutely see that. Yeah. Have you heard of Clubhouse? 

Allison: [00:25:14] Nope

Megan: [00:25:15] . Okay. It's like, it is one of those new ones on the scene. Isn't getting a lot of buzz because it's invite-only, yeah. Like I haven't gotten an invitation. I'm very jealous. All the other people who have, so I'm trying to find somebody to give me an invitation. 

Allison: [00:25:34] She's like, do you have it? Can you invite me? 

Megan: [00:25:37] Can you?

Allison: [00:25:42] I absolutely would. 

Megan: [00:25:43] Yes. Okay. All right. Well, I guess the last thing I wanted to ask was about advertising. Like, how do you feel in general about advertising on socials? Do you ever click on them or are you like, eh, one of those people, like if I click on it, it's going to be on everything that I, every browser. So I'm not going to click on it. How do you feel that ads?

Allison: [00:26:05] I definitely click on ads speaking to me all the time. I feel like, and then they're like, Oh yeah, I don't know why like I'm saying Schitt's Creek. Cause I love Schitt's Creek. Thanks to you for getting me hooked on Schitt's Creek, even though it was I couldn't engage at first, but then, you know, deep dive into Schitt's Creek.

So it's like, here's a Rose apothecary shirt. And I was like, Oh yes, I definitely want a Rose apothecary shirt. And that I clicked on there. And so I think ads do yes for sure. Get me regularly, but more for like products. I think then like like people or click on this ad too, I dunno, it tends to be like an item, like, Oh yes, that is a shirt I want.

Or, Oh my gosh, that mug is so fun. I want that much, you know, those kinds of things.

Megan: [00:26:46] Yeah. Good. And mostly on Instagram or do you click on the Facebook ones? 

Allison: [00:26:51] Facebook's are weird. I feel like I get weird stuff that shows up in Facebook ads. I feel like Instagram is more like, yep. And also you get the same things like a few times and I'm like, okay.

Yes, fine. I'll click on it. Like I've been avoiding that. And there it is again. So I guess I'll click on it this time. 

Megan: [00:27:07] sometimes I'm like if I just buy this, will this ad go away? 

Allison: [00:27:12] No, it'll get worse. If you buy it, then they're like, yes, I know I have this forever.

Megan: [00:27:22] Is there anything else you can think of that is just like, oh, I love this on social. This is really like a Seven thing. 

Allison: [00:27:33] Hmm. I think that, like, there have been times where I have just had to get off of social media because everything felt too heavy. And so I want it, I want, I want it to be more fun in general.

It's like this weird balance of I don't get on there to be made to feel bad. Cause I don't like to feel bad. That is a, you know, a big Seven thing is avoidance of those feelings. So if it gets too heavy, it's like I got to stay away from social media for a bit because it feels like too much.

Everybody is really all the contents really heavy. So then I have to take a break from it and then come back. So I think I go through some of these cycles like that. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I think when I post like my stuff is all very, usually like pretty surface-y like, Oh, here's what I used to do.

Fun things. I think maybe the hard part here that I'm having is like, remember when we did fun things and we'd put them on Instagram, and then now we do nothing. So here we are. Sadness. Yeah, because I like that I went on this fun trip or I did this fun thing or like, here's this fun stuff. And so I think it's harder when there's not fun stuff happening.

Yeah. Yeah. Such as, you know, 2020, 2021 we're here. We still are. 

Megan: [00:28:58] I feel like it's just the same year. It just keeps going. 

We should see. That's what we're doing. 

Exactly. I had a typo in our group texts. I was like, well, the motto in 2021 is just let's wait and see, but I accidentally typed auto corrected to wish and see, and I'm like, no, that's fine. 

Allison: [00:29:19] That's what we're doing. We're going to wish it's going to be better. And we'll see. Exactly. Yep. 

Megan: [00:29:25] Well, thank you so much for doing this. Allison, I cannot thank you enough. And I eagerly looking forward to the next time we can actually, you know, be actually IRL face-to-face.

Allison: [00:29:38] I know absolutely me too. Thanks for having me.