Megan's Social Media Marketing Show - episode 19 - Know Your Customer on Social Media: Enneagram Type Five

ep19 - Know Your Customer on Social Media: Enneagram Type Five

show May 26, 2021

Find out how Enneagram Fives approach social media!

Modern marketing says you need to find your one, perfect customer and get to know their preferences, habits, likes, and dislikes. The Enneagram is an ancient knowledge system paired with modern-day psychology to describe nine distinct personality types. I'm on a mission to discover what the Modern Enneagram can tell Modern Marketing about the personality of your one, perfect customer. 

My next guest in this series is one of my Instagram Challenge Group members, Kate Boyd. 

Kate is an Enneagram Type Five. We discuss:

  • What she likes and dislikes on social media
  • What makes her click on a post, comment, or share
  • The platforms she loves to hang out on
  • How marketers can make sure Fives feel loved on their social

If you've ever wished you could get in your customer’s head and know how to create social media content for them, this conversation with Kate could get you one step closer.



About My Guest:

Kate Boyd is a writer, speaker, and Bible teacher. Inspired by encounters with the global church, she helps believers find and create Biblical community with intimacy and integrity wherever they find themselves in location or in life. She provides weekly reflections and resources about church and discipleship with the Happy & Holy Podcast and the Couches & Cathedrals newsletter. 


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Megan: Hello and welcome to Megan's social media marketing show. I am so excited to have you me, Kate Boyd. She is going to talk to us about being an Enneagram five in this series called know your customer through the Enneagram.

Our goal is to get to you as marketers to understand a little more about how to welcome the Enneagram five on social media. So thank you so much for being with us, Kate. 

Kate: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. I love talking about being a five cause I don't hear it very often. 

Megan: Yeah. So first of all, tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do.

Anything that you'd like us to know? 

Kate: Yeah. Well, I do a lot of things by day. I am a communications person in a. In one department of a university up here in Dallas. And then you know, I'm also a seminary student and I do some writing and speaking about discipleship in community. 

Megan: And you can be found on Instagram where 


Megan: anywhere else I know you're on Twitter as well.

What are you the same there?

Kate:  No cause you can't put dots in your name. Otherwise, I would, there it's obnoxious. It's the Kate Boyd. Okay. 

Megan: I thought you were going to say it's the obnoxious Kmart or something like that. 

Kate: It just, I always get very self-conscious that it's like the Kate Boyd, but it was like one of the only iterations of my name that wasn't confusing.

And so I'm like, I'm the Kate Boyd. It's very weird, but that's what it is. 

Megan: Verified. That's so funny. Yeah. Okay. Before we dive into all things, social media and your experience, I would love to read to you a short description of any grand five. And you can tell me if you relate well, or if there's something in particular that you relate most with about this prescription.

So fives are alert, insightful and curious. They are able to concentrate and focus on developing complex ideas and skills, independent, innovative, and inventive. They can also become preoccupied with their thoughts and. Imaginary constructs. They become detached yet high, strong, and intense. They typically have problems with X centricity, nihilism, and isolation at their best visionary pioneers.

Often ahead of their time are able to see the world in an entirely new way. That description was from the Enneagram, which is a great resource. I recommend it for everyone, so, okay. What resonated with you about that description? 

Kate: All of it I mean, I definitely  I'm a thinker, I'm an observer.

I sit back and, and I do sometimes get lost in my own thoughts or instead of actually putting things together and. You know, like writing them out and getting them out of my head. I had sometimes just stay with them, but I do like,  just pondering things and looking at stuff and putting together threads that other people haven't seen yet, or that I've noticed for the first time.

And so, yeah, it's really fun then to apply that to something that actually needs to be fixed or needs attention. Cause then you can just sort of like sit back and observe and then. Jump in once the dots connect for you. And so that's kind of, that's at least how my brain works. And I feel like the other fives I know have similar ideas.

Megan: Hmm. Great. So what does a typical week or day look like for you on social media? What are the apps that you spend time on? Where do you like to hang out? What does it look like for you? Yeah. 

Kate: Well, it certainly includes much more social media than it probably should every day. Which is probably a common story.

I mean, I wake up and I check things cause you know, I use social media for my own for personal, but also professional things. And so I Regrettably check it first thing in the morning, which I'm trying to fix, but there we are. And then, you know, usually when I get to work, whenever I'm enjoying my coffee, I kind of, you know, scroll a little bit.

I usually hang out mostly on Twitter and Instagram, Twitter being probably my favorite or primary place. Instagram, I like stories and. Connecting with people sometimes. But I don't know, it feels a little bit harder to net navigate in a way. And then, yeah, and then I pop on, throughout the day, if there's like minutes in between.

And so, you know, as a, as a creator, I, I plan more for Instagram and Twitter is more. Spur of the moment or something sort of like out in the ether, that's sparked something and then you can jot it down. And so it becomes a Twitter becomes a great place to even like test ideas that then can be more curated for like an Instagram environment and stuff like that.

So I like. Yeah. And I like the conversations that I have on Twitter. Cause you tend to start seeing some of the same communities and people and throwing around ideas. And I've also found that once you build a community, they're a little bit, they're much more. Trusting and less like jump all over you then than Instagram can be about certain things.

So yeah, it's, it's sort of like in, in just like everyone else, you know, I have my phone with me all the time, so I'm up and I'm on it. Hmm, more than I should be only women. 

Megan: We can all say that. Yes. So it's interesting to hear you say that you feel like Twitter is the space where you can have more conversations that people in Instagram will be like, oh, or they jump on you for, I think were the words that you used, which many people would describe the opposite way.

Kate: I think it depends on the communities you find the air. So I think Instagram is because I don't use hashtags and stuff on Twitter. And I don't really see people using them for a normal conversation. Like unless you're seeking out specific Controversial content that sometimes isn't even shouldn't be controversial, but it is you know, or get sort of like retweeted into your community.

You're probably not even aware of it. I ended up more in a corner. I think Instagram you know, there is a level of sharing that happens there. That's a little more public. And then, , if you're trying to be found and trying to build platforms and things like that, you're using hashtags and you're connecting with people and And the circles that I'm in there's there tend to be very strong opinions on some very specific things.

And so if you talk about those things, it is both, it can be both good and bad, but I've certainly found at least in my experience and maybe this is I'm probably just not popular enough on Twitter to incur the wrath of a lot of people just yet. But I have found Instagrammers to be much more.

Touchy about things. 

Megan: That's true.  I can see, see how that perception can happen because Twitter is a more opinionated place by nature. So yeah,  I hear what you're saying. It seems opposite at first, but I get what you're saying in that, like, Instagrammers are a little more It, it it's, it's less of a, let's throw out all of our opinions and depends on what circle losing you're in, of course, as you said, but so, and the different communities that you've curated in both places, they have, they have different ways to react to.

Kate: It's very different. Like you said, communities, and so it's always interesting to see what translates to which thing.

Megan: Okay. So as you. For entertainment purposes, things like this is just you using your social media. What are some things that just drive you crazy? Do you have pet peeves when you're on any platforms 

Kate: well I think the first thing as a creative person, I. I have a pet peeve with people, not at attributing quotes and things like that, that really bugs me.

Or I'm also, I also try really hard. Like I know that the power's in a sound bite, but I also try really hard to be nuanced, even when I do. Work for soundbite potential. And so people just sort of like throwing things out, even though they don't even fully agree with those things, or they would admit to various nuances, like all the platforms at this point have a way for you to put nuance into things, whether it's in the original tweet or in the thread below or in the graphic on Instagram or in the caption, like there's a lot of ways to do that.

And then of course, when I'm interacting with people or people are interacting on my stuff, when they don't actually read all of the things that you, you have to like, explain yourself over and over. But in a way that's like not rude because I'm a woman who talks about theology. And so I'm already sort of like on the, on the edge in some ways And so being like, if you had, it's almost like that, you know, per my last email, like per the caption above just like normal grammar things. Like I get really, like, I hate when I have a typo and something's already taken off and I'm like, well, I can't change it now. And it's just out there and everyone knows. So yeah, I mean, I think it's things like that are just like, When people don't ask questions for clarification and just, there's like a pile on without any understanding or generosity 

Kate: full of assumptions.

And so I know that so whether that's something that you put out there or something that people are responding to, that you put out there that's like, that's rough.

 Megan: Absolutely. What are some things on social or maybe a place on social that you could just go down the rabbit hole? Like you get lost

Kate: Hmm. I actually, I, I actually spend a lot of time on Tik TOK to just like scrolling because there's everything from like adorable dog videos to like funny people, to people sharing random things.

And so there'll be some rabbit holes that I'll, you know, you find one video that someone stitched or do edit or whatever, and you just like follow all of that. Which is interesting. And then I also just really love, I love really, really deep, intense, like, Twitter threads where people are just like, it's almost like a blog post, but it's on Twitter.

About some, I don't know about something that's important. And so I like just sort of like digging into that and then looking more at that person and going down and seeing all the other responses and resources that people put in there. And so yeah, those kinds of things. So anything that it can be totally useless and silly, like your favorite celebrity interview.

Like I love those clips, but I also love the ones where somebody is really presenting a detailed, different point of view or subset of knowledge. That's helpful for something happening in the culture.

 Megan: You touched on it a little bit. I was wondering, because the stereotype of an Enneagram five S that you have to research everything and you have to be a hundred percent informed and you can go down these huge rabbit holes without. Coming up for air. Is that something that you do on social media or is it something that you're doing you're researching elsewhere?

It might send you social media might send you there, or is that not even something that you have a tendency toward? 

Kate: Oh, I definitely have a tendency toward it. Probably every week. There's something else that I'm like, Ooh. And usually it starts on social media. I would say mostly on Twitter, somebody posts an article or they do a thread or something and it sends me, you know, Googling stuff and watching videos and yeah.

Tracking down all the stories and the history of it and really figuring it out. Because I, I mean, I also have, like, my undergrad was journalism, so I want to make sure that I'm understanding things and I'm seeing both sides of stuff. And then I'm that, you know, the facts are correct on different sides.

And so it was very, so to me, it's sort of an. A weird way to do like reporting and research when you can just sort of like track stuff down in social media usually is the starting place. For stuff like that. For me, I mean, I know I have a long list. And I, at this point, my life is very busy and full of.

Things that have to be done. Like I'm sitting in front of a bunch of reading that I have to be doing for school. And so I actually have a long list of things that over summer and do more research on our 

Megan: research list. 

Kate: Like, I don't know, that's my, that's my fun summer plans or my theological research that I don't have to do for school.

Megan: Love it 

Kate: hope that tells you anything about being an Enneagram five. Yeah. And so it definitely starts there or gets me thinking, or I talk with people about those things there or ask for resources about different stuff and then just kind of like make a backlog or constantly ordering books so that I can eventually dig into those things if I don't have the bandwidth to do at the moment.

Megan: Okay. So let's do it a little round Robin of the different social platforms. And you can tell me, yay, may I hate this a little, this, this is how we use it. What you might spend time or like it for or what you don't like? So Facebook, we have not touched on.

Kate: Facebook has at least from a personal side, I understand as a person who's familiar with marketing, the marketing benefits of being on Facebook. And I technically have a page there. I also have a personal profile but I don't really use it except to interact with groups in various programs or special things.

Yeah, because there's just, Facebook is a wild animal these days personally. And so I just, it's easier to not see things than to see things and be frustrated by them all the time. So I sort of stay away, but that's probably symptomatic of where I am in our, and our cultural moment right now. 

Megan: That makes sense.

That's another place where people, I think, feel like lots of it, opinions, 

Kate: lots of opinions. And yeah, and lots of. I mean, I could spend my whole day there fact checking people and I just it's exhausting. So I tell them, and then that turns into arguments and needs or people that, you know, and so it becomes a little bit more challenging to navigate with grace and kindness and still be able to maintain relationships sometimes.

So, And it really, it took up a lot of brain space.  Where are we in April four or five, six months ago. And so it's just sort of like, we're just not going to be there for awhile. 

Megan: You ran by an interesting. Point, or at least you're reminding me of one that any gram fives typically have the least amount of energy stores per day, then all the other personality types.

Do you experience that personally? And does that, like you described this book help you or make you have to set boundaries.

Kate:  I definitely have to set boundaries. And I think the energy depends on the type of interaction more than the interaction itself specifically. You know, because things that exert a lot of emotional energy or even mental energy to a degree, because that's how I want, like my intellectual energy.

I want to use an, a. Different capacity. And so there are things that I set boundaries around so that I, I deal less with that when possible. Yeah, so that's how that goes. 

Megan: Okay. Twitter is next

Kate:  I, I really 

enjoy Twitter. For a few reasons. I think there's a level of access to people there that you wouldn't always get to have conversations with or that you read their books.

And if you're at least in my sort of like Christian non-fiction. Arena, even as a consumer you know, I've actually gotten to have conversations on Twitter with people whose books that I really loved or or things like that. And so there's sort of like a a level of dialogue that happens there that doesn't happen on other platforms.

I feel like people share a lot of interesting knowledge. And they're sort of like little niche communities you can end up in whether that's around certain interests or certain beliefs or certain,  experiences there are sort of ways to get yourself in. And then you end up, you know, with this great community of people and it's also like, people are very comfortable there.

With big questions. Like, I don't feel like as it, so as a contributor, like a creator, I feel like I can actually just show up there and like wrestle with stuff or like ask a question and get people's thoughts. Whereas I feel like on Instagram or something, I have to be more of a contributor. Like I have to show up and be more Experty.

From that person from a creative perspective. And so Twitter has at least become this place where we can talk about, even though you're very limited in how you can do that, you know, from a character perspective at least the people that have sort of come around or have been around for a little bit.

I. I had a big group of followers just come on recently. And so they're sort of figuring because it was totally unrelated. And so, they're sort of figuring out what I'm all about, but the people around, like, even if I ask hard questions or I don't feel like I have to like, Put a disclaimer around, like, I know that Twitter is limited and please understand these are earnest questions.

They're like, no, we know you. And we know that you only ask like this. And so it's a very, I don't know, it feels like a very different place. So I really enjoy Twitter for the interaction. And for the way that I can both put out stuff that says like, Hey, I know what I'm talking about, but also. Just create conversations about things that I'm finding interesting right now, or that I'm thinking about and processing over time and have other people share how they're processing it too.

Megan: Yeah. Mm, great. Instagram.

Kate:  Instagram is fun. Most of the time I like that they are always playing with new features to sort of experiment with or even just sort of like allow me to be creative or to see other people being creative. I. I would say, I don't look at feeds very much. I'm more of like, I really like stories if they're not, if it's not like going on forever.

That's most of what I do on Instagram from a consumer standpoint is watchable stories. And then There's like a handful of people that all that I always look for or getting notifications for so that I can make sure that I'm keeping up with my friends while keeping up with my, my sort of, you know, creator eight part.

But so from that perspective, it's really good and interesting. And I like to see what people share with other people, which is why stories is really interesting too, because. You can see what other people are relating to, or that's how I sort of find new accounts to follow as like one of my friends are following and what they are sharing.

And it's really less about, it's become a little less about it all being pretty, which I kind of enjoy. I think that's part of it still, but I like that it's a little bit more raw in a sense anyway, than it used to be. And that you can just kind of, you can spit ball things where you can write longer, more thoughtful things or just be silly and create, communicate, you know, create community there too.

So I like it again, my particular circles, there are pockets of it that are very eager to jump on you for specific things. But overall, I, I enjoy. Yeah, I enjoy sort of like the peek into people's lives that I get there. 

Megan: That was interesting. Cause I don't, I don't know if I've had somebody say they spend most of their time in stories.

So that is interesting to hear. And Kate does amazing reels go follow her for her real. If anything else, all her for grills, they're very entertaining. Let's move on to Pinterest.

Kate:  I technically have an account, but I don't really use it. Or if I'm looking for I'll use it when I'm looking for something specific, from a perspective, like when I got a new job a couple of years ago, I needed some new clothes.

Cause I had gotten rid of a lot of My office clothes cause I was working on my own for awhile. And so, so I was like, well, I've got to figure out how a regular person dresses when they go to the office or you know, we built a, we built a bar in our in our house. And so I went to Pinterest to look for things.

So that's really sort of like a very specific search engine for me. And I don't really use it for. Promotional things. From a promotional perspective, I tried for a little bit, but my stuff, I think there's not enough people there looking for the kind of thing that I talk about. So it hasn't been worth it for me from there though in past things, I used to have a cheerleading business and.

Pinterest was like the number one thing that drove traffic. So for, I think there are pockets of it that if you're more like DIY, it's probably better. Yeah. Go for it.

Megan:  Oh my gosh. No, no. I want to know about the cheerleading business, but we'll move on. The next one is linked in.

Kate:  Again, I have a profile.

I don't use it. You know, I'm not really looking for jobs and. And things. And so it's just sort of like, yeah it's a little stuffy and a little spammy. Like I get sort of a lot of like messages just like randomly. And I don't know, it doesn't feel like a place that, where people are actually connecting in a meaningful way.

And so it doesn't really feel like a place that I dunno, and I certainly don't need it for whatever career aspirations I may or may have. Which I don't even know what those are, but I refresh it. Like if I was looking for a job, I refresh it. So that there's a presence there and people can check me out, but I, I don't really use it.

There's probably like. A bajillion, unread messages and notifications that 

Megan: I think that is completely fair. Assessment of LinkedIn. 

Tik Tok. 

Kate: I, I like to talk from a consumer standpoint. People are really, really creative and funny and smart. And about all sorts of different things. And so it's really fun.

I did use it for a little while from a creator perspective. But again, I feel like the pockets of what I talk about are very extreme in their opinions. And because I talk about Christianity and discipleship. So we've sort of got like, you know, so there were people who either loved what I was saying and then people who just came and dunked on it constantly.

And then it also had this weird thing Where like people who aren't even in the community. So like atheists were coming and like just insulting things. And so it just sort of like very weird from like the comments I was getting and stuff. So I was like, Hm, I don't know that there's a space of people.

Because my people are sort of in the middle, we're not really left. We're not really right. We're like in this weird middle and there's more of those people on Instagram and Twitter, then there seemed to have been on Tik TOK. Or maybe I was just really bad at selecting the right hashtags. I don't know, because I think there is a lot of people in that, that thing I come across their videos.

But they tend to be a little bit more extreme than I am. And so I think they're sort of. Yeah, so it was very hit or miss for me. And so it was just like, once Instagram started doing reels, I was like, great. I don't have to learn a new platform. I'm just going to keep it over here and built in one place.

But I do spend a good amount of time just scrolling, like if my husband's cooking dinner and I can't start a TV show, I get on Tik talk and I'll scroll for 30 minutes. And just come across a lot of things. So it's a really, it's fun and it's people and I'm always stunned by how creative people are on there.

Megan: And I agree with you in that and from talking to other Tik-tok creators, that the comments can be wild. Yeah, because it's a different, I don't want to get into teaching, but it's a different platform. The. It is not algorithm based as the same, the same type of thing that Facebook and Instagram are.

Even the reels on Instagram are not the same algorithm as your feed posts. It is very much hashtag driven and. It's very much more. They feed you. What's popular in those things versus what you're following or what you've interacted with before. So that being the case, you get a lot more randomness and the people that come across your content are a lot more random, which makes sense.

And why bizarre, you know? 

Kate: So it just sort of felt like I do not eat until I can figure out how to. Target this better or something. It just doesn't feel it. That was not worth my mental and emotional energy. Right. Right. 

Because, because the other thing is I also take responsibility as a person. Like I want to have discussion.

So if someone brings up something, you know, I'll at least present the other side or present more details about what I'm saying. I don't, I'm not going to convince those people, but at least somebody else. In the comments. If they see it, we'll see the other side. And you know, if it then devolves from there there are instances where I'm mute and block and delete and things like that.

Which is a new thing for me. I try not to do that. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but but there have been some instances where people have really stepped over. What I feel like is, is align. So. But on Tik-tok, they didn't seem interested in any of that at all. Or it was just sort of like, it was all baiting in the way that they would comment versus like, just like actually wanting to talk about stuff.

And even on Instagram, I feel like people will semi talk about it. They'll at least go back and forth kind of nicely for a minute. And then it'll usually. Devolve after one or two interactions. At which point I try to just be like, agree to disagree, have a nice day and stop. It goes crazy. But I have like, I even, well, I accidentally deleted a post on Instagram once because.

But it was probably for the best because it turned into a giant pile on to me. And so it was just like not worth it. So when it comes to those types of things those are things that I don't find worth my mental and emotional energy, especially when I don't have the knowledge to really speak to common objections.

So if I do post something somewhat controversial it's because I actually have the facts tobacco saying, and I will happily share that with people 

Megan: There's that enneagram five coming out. Yeah. And it's so interesting to me that your focus or your goal. Or even just what brings you joy on these platforms are the conversations, you know, you're there to discuss and to have healthy debate in a good way, you know, on these platforms.

And that's not what happens on TikTok. TikTok is not a place for conversations. So I totally understand why that would not be your jam. That makes sense. I'm interested. Do you? Are you more interested in public commenting, debating co discussions versus DMS? Do you spend a lot of time in your DMS?

Kate: I do spend, I would say, I mean, I guess it depends. I don't know what a lot is. Cause I only have my experience. I would say I spend a decent amount of time in DMS and most of that is people saying, thank you or I relate to this. Or do you have more resources about this thing or that thing?

Cause sometimes I'll. Say, you know, if you want an article around this that I found or whatever, DME, and I'll send it to you and I'll, and I do that. And then we have some conversations around those things. So, yeah, so that happens on Instagram. It happens a little bit on Twitter too. I've gotten this thing on Twitter now where people are asking me you know, questions that they're embarrassed to ask in public.

Because of what we talk about, what I talk about when it comes to Christianity and evangelicalism and all these things, you know, people are really wrestling with what it looks like to be faithful and, and if they can be and still believe this thing or whatever, and it can be hard when you're really embedded in these communities, in your life and online.

Yeah. To bring up some of those things. So in that way, I do spend a little bit of time in DMS. Just like being like, no, it's okay. Or I'm so sorry that happened to you too. Or just little things like that. Because, and it's funny. I don't go there for the debate. I, but I want people, I want to. I want people to see bigger picture.

Like I want people to have this like, to be captivated by the same vision that I'm captivated by and to understand it and to start living through it instead of some of the smaller things that they make, the big things. And so. So sometimes that means creating some debate and sometimes that just means saying, I see you and I hear you.

And I understand because I've been there too, or I've seen this in a lot of people and we can do better. And so it's sort of like a both-sided. So I get sort of both of that. But in public it's usually objection. And in DMS it's usually me too, or I don't know where else I can at who else I can ask about this.

Megan: I had a conversation with another Instagram creator who writes on things about body issues and can be very sensitive subjects. And she's like, what am I supposed to do with my engagement? When people just DM me? Because they don't want to tell their, they don't want to reveal themselves or say very personal things in the comments, but they really want either your affirmation or like you said, other resources, or to have this conversation about this in private.

So that's, that is interesting. I don't want to say dilemma because it's not a dilemma, but an interesting quirk to that kind of platform. But I don't think it's any in any way, shape or form a negative thing, because I'll say this may sound crass, but sales happen in the DMs. I mean, that is where you.

Are building the deepest relationship and they are, they are most likely and willing and you can share an actual link that goes to an actual place to help them further in like, well, here's this resource, here's this product I created. Here's this thing. I wrote all of that. So, It's a great thing that you have people showing up in your DMS.

I think that I don't find it.

Kate:  I like, I think that's such an honor that people trust me with some of those things that they're going through or dealing with. Or even just thinking and not sure what to think, you know? And so, I, I feel really honored that they feel like it's a safe space to show up.

And and that's what I, that's something I hope. For cause I know that in some of the environments, in which we interact with the content that I talk about, it's not safe to have doubt or not safe to do those things. And so yeah, that to me is the height of, you know, if I just am able to talk to people that way.

And in that way I get to ask more questions and we can go deep and we can go back and forth and it's a little bit easier. If we're actually having a deep conversation. So in that way on Instagram, I'd say that's probably a place that I really enjoy too. 

Megan: That's great. Okay. So as we wrap up, if you were sitting in a marketing meeting for your favorite brand and you're a marketer, so you've probably sat in marketing meetings before about like this, but advocating for you're the representative for any enneagram fives, what would you tell them to do, to send all the Enneagram fives to their accounts for them, for those fives to feel welcome, to want to interact with them. 

Kate: Hmm. I think so one thing. I like, I, I don't love like those little silly surface-level questions that other people love. And sometimes I do, but even that, like, it sounds silly, but like, who's your celebrity crush or whatever.

Like, I have to keep a list on my phone because I know that's something people ask a lot and I'm not going to have the answer when people ask. And so I have a list or like your favorite movies, like things like that. It's really hard for me to narrow down or to think on the spot. And so stuff like that, that I don't think about all the time feel like.

I'm going to skip over that because a, I know that someone's going to judge that very specifically and B it's going to take me 20 minutes to figure that out. Or even remember, unless I have a list on my phone of this random bit that I know people ask all the time. And so I don't love those, but I do like bigger questions.

So when someone's asking, like, what's the difference between this or this to you? Or how do you determine this or, you know, what do you think about XYZ? If it's something that's within sort of that pocket of knowledge that they're supposed to be about. I probably, and I follow them. I've probably thought about it or been thinking about it.

And so either or so either I can drop something that feels right, or I can. You know, ask another question, you know, that can have a conversation around that thing. And I think too anything that will teach me, enlighten me go deep into something instead of a lot of like surface level information.

I would rather have a deep dive into one thing. And get some actual facts and stats or terms or whatever that looks like on whatever platform. You know, I really like those like specific, deep pockets of knowledge instead of, I like high-level too. Cause I like seeing frameworks of things and how people fit things together and structure stuff.

But if you want my attention on something, I'll probably be 

Kate: A niche fact, deep dive.

Megan: Oh, that's so good. I love the little tidbit that you have lists on your phone. I'm like, oh, it's like the worst, but I know that people are going to ask and I'm not going to have the answer if I need it. And so I have to keep the list so that I remember here you are like the beauty pageant contestant.

Who's practicing for, if you were an animal, what animal would you be? Is that on your phone? 

Kate: No, I should. I should have that. Well, that's the thing, you know, I don't love the icebreaker questions, you know what I mean? Like I. Unless you give it to me like three days in advance so that I can think about it and have the exact right answer so that I don't regret what I say in the moment.

Or feel like, oh no, now that everybody else has said they are now, I know, you know, and so I prefer. To be able to think. So I'm not opposed to an ice breaker question. Just give me at least a day to think what it is so I can show up prepared. So I would say, you know, that sort of stuff, if it's within your lane and people sort of think about those things within what you're talking, the icebreaker question is fine, but it's just, yeah, those are hard for me because I know that.

I don't know, I just don't. Those are just not things that I interact with all the time. And, you know, I, they're not always things that I want to tell people or whatever. There's just, there's a certain amount of like, this is sort of what I think about and what I do. And. I don't know. I don't, I don't know what that, I don't know what it says about me that my celebrity crush is so-and-so, you know, like what do you know about me now?

Oh, I'd rather, I'd rather talk to you about what you believe about God. Let's talk about that. You know, like go in,

Megan:  forget my favorite color. Do you know? Jesus? Oh, Well, this has been just delightful. Kate, thank you so much for having this conversation. Can you tell us where everybody who's, who's heard about all the things that you talk about, where they can go to follow you, support you to help you out.

Kate: Yeah. My website is sort of where everything collects. So that's Kate And from there you can find my podcast called happy and holy my newsletter about rethinking church and discipleship. And I'm opening. We'd lead though. I'm not on Facebook group. I'm opening a Facebook group soon about creating a discipleship community for yourself.

So, You can hop on over there to those, and they're all on my website. So you can, that's a nice hub., and then on Instagram and Twitter @theKateBoyd if you want a little bit more unpolished randomness than Instagram, Twitter is the place to be. 

Megan: There you go. Okay. Well, thank you so much.

This has been so valuable. This helps. I know it helped me and I hope it helps all the other marketers out there to welcome and make sure that any grand fives feel comfortable on social media. So thank you so much, Kate. Yeah. Thanks for having me.